InvestmentWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Branding

2023-03-03T13:11:40Z

Anja:

[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]] I'd like to progress slowly but surely on Name and Slogan. Do you have any thoughts, questions or suggestions about it? From your perspective would be the ideal name of an (sophisticated) investment community, what it's slogan, how should it present itself? Are there things in our appearance that we urgently need to change? (Apart from finalizing, proof reading, clear/better formulation etc.) --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 20:56, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]]

I think the first step is to find a name and then to create a logo which fits to the name. Maybe a brainstorming would be nice and helpful? Let us gather ideas, which come up in our mind (without critical thinking at the beginning wether the ideas are good or bad). What do you think?

Here is what came up into my mind:

- CleverInvest
- SmartInvest
- CleverInvestCom
- SmartInvestCom
- Clever Invest Strategies
- Learn to Invest
- Learn to Invest Clever
- How to Invest
- How to Invest Clever
- Invest Know-How for You
- Investment Best Practices
- Investment Best Practices for You
- Investment Best Practices for All

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 10:58, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Anja]] I have been pretty tired yesterday when I wrote the msg, so I did not formulate it well.
This discussion is referring to the adjacent branding article, in which there are some concepts for Name, Slogan, Logos etc as well as more open questions.
I agree that starting with a Name is the most important part followed by the Slogan. (I accidentally wrote Logo in the first instance above)
The name which is almost set is "InvestmentWiki" but I am open to critique, more thoughts, questions or other suggestions, so I agree that an open collection of ideas is never bad and I am interested in Feedback which components make an investment community interesting. For you it would be primarily the learning part Anja? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 12:44, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]]
Yes, for me it would definitely be the learning (how to) part. So maybe my suggestions are at least helpful (or an inspiration) for the slogan.

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 13:11, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Branding

2023-03-03T10:58:30Z

Anja:

[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]] I'd like to progress slowly but surely on Name and Logo. Do you have any thoughts, questions or suggestions about it? From your perspective would be the ideal name of an (sophisticated) investment community, what it's slogan, how should it present itself? Are there things in our appearance that we urgently need to change? (Apart from finalizing, proof reading, clear/better formulation etc.) --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 20:56, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]]

I think the first step is to find a name and then to create a logo which fits to the name. Maybe a brainstorming would be nice and helpful? Let us gather ideas, which come up in our mind (without critical thinking at the beginning wether the ideas are good or bad). What do you think?

Here is what came up into my mind:

- CleverInvest
- SmartInvest
- CleverInvestCom
- SmartInvestCom
- Clever Invest Strategies
- Learn to Invest
- Learn to Invest Clever
- How to Invest
- How to Invest Clever
- Invest Know-How for You
- Investment Best Practices
- Investment Best Practices for You
- Investment Best Practices for All

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 10:58, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Administration:Buchhaltung/Belege

2023-02-10T16:36:35Z

Anja:

''Zurück zu: [[Administration]] | [[Administration:Buchhaltung|Buchhaltung]]''

Alle Angaben ohne Gewähr

=== Im Unterschied zur Rechnung braucht eine Quittung keine der folgenden Angaben: ===

* Datum der Leistung
* Rechnungsnummer
* Steuernummer

Die Vorlage für eine Quittung ist damit weniger detailliert als die Vorlage für eine ordentliche Rechnung.

Der wesentliche Unterschied zwischen der Rechnung und der Quittung ist, dass eine Quittung als Beweis für den Erhalt einer Leistung und Zahlung dient. Die Rechnung hat im Unterschied zur Quittung die Funktion, Leistungen übersichtlich darzustellen und die dazugehörigen Kosten aufzuzeigen.

Das deutsche Umsatzsteuergesetz gibt vor, welche Pflichtangaben auf einer Rechnung zu finden sein müssen. Diese Informationen schützen sowohl Käufer als auch Händler vor möglichen Missverständnissen und helfen ihnen dabei, die konkreten Verkaufsbedingungen besser zu verstehen. '''Auch das Finanzamt kann die finanziellen Vorgänge eines Unternehmens so besser nachvollziehen und auf Rechtskonformität überprüfen.'''

Rechnungen müssen nach geltendem Recht gem. § 14 Abs. 4 i.V.m. § 14a Abs. 5 UStG folgende Angaben enthalten:

* Vollständiger Name und Anschrift des leistenden Unternehmers und des Leistungsempfängers
* Steuernummer oder Umsatzsteueridentifikationsnummer
* Ausstellungsdatum der Rechnung
* Fortlaufende Rechnungsnummer
* Menge und handelsübliche Bezeichnung der gelieferten Gegenstände oder die Art und den Umfang der sonstigen Leistung
* Zeitpunkt der Lieferung bzw. Leistung
* Nach Steuersätzen und -befreiungen aufgeschlüsseltes Entgelt
* Im Voraus vereinbarte Minderungen des Entgelts
* Entgelt und hierauf entfallender Steuerbetrag sowie Hinweis auf Steuerbefreiung
* Ggf. Hinweis auf Steuerschuld des Leistungsempfängers Generell gilt: Bei Beträgen bis 150 Euro muss es keine Rechnung sein – '''das Finanzamt erkennt bis zu diesem Betrag auch Quittungen an'''.

Talk:Changelog

2023-01-23T17:37:03Z

Anja:

[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]] I think having an Changelog as Linear does, helps us to celebrate our wins and progress as well as establishing credibility to the outside. Please read the article of Linear and have a look how are they presenting their Changelog. What are your opinions about implementing our own Changelog? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 11:15, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]] I guess in the course of development, there often arises the question about what was changed lately (or when) and what tasks were completed. A changelog could help to keep the whole structure '''and''' the changes in mind. Especially when working in a team, change logging might be very helpful. And of course, it shows our progress to the outside, which is very positive. It is basically also a good overview of how active and productive we are, and a Changlog could awake the interest of others to be part of this progress and active team.
--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 17:36, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Our Values:Discussion/First value

2023-01-20T08:02:34Z

Anja: /* Final thoughts */

''Return to: [[Our Values]]''

This '''detailed discussion''' is referring to [[Our Values]] and follows a first discussion [[Talk:Our Values|here.]] You can find rules on how to participate in discussions in the [[Discussion|Discussions]] main page.

'''Description:'''

There is broad consensus on content of the value itself but diverging opinions on the best naming.

Given the importance of setting the correct values for the company and community i opened this detailed discussion.

Please add to goals we have with the value, pro and contra arguments, describe them and sign which current opinion you have. Opinions can always be changed. Changing an Opinion is neither good or bad, but Opinions should always be well reflected and help us to reach the best possible course of action. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 10:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

== Options ==
Currently discussed Options

* Strive for excellence
* Growth Mindset
* Continuous Improvement

== Goals of the value ==

* Clear communication of our ambition to continuously build on the wiki and turn it into one of the most sophisticated investment knowledge collections
* Clear communication that articles should be continuously improved and we value all - even the smallest contributions - to reach that goal
* Clear communication that we value in depth and detailed work
* Clear communication that we aim to continuously improve on all processes and create very well running systems
* Clear communication that we aim to continuously improve ourselves
* Clear communication that we value people with passion and persistency who aim to achieve mastery in their field
* Attraction of people with similar attributes
* Gaining of trust that the quality of all our work will continuously improve and that all processes will eventually run very well
* Gaining of trust that we are able to reflect on our mistakes and improve and change everything which is not great
* Gaining of trust that we will succeed together and build something great
* Explanation why eventually good articles should be improved to great
* Encouragement to ask questions in order to improve
Add more

== Comparison table ==
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Pro
!Strive for excellence
!Growth Mindset
!Continuous Improvement
|-
|
|Focus on improvement until it is great
|Association with good values
|The description is very natural
|-
|
|
|
|Describes iteration well
|-
|
|
|
|True for all experience levels
|-
|'''Contra'''
|Value might sound intimidating
|Potentially focused too much on personal development?
|Less expressive
|-
|
|Foster perfectionism?
|Term not universally known
|
|-
|
|Harder to admit mistakes?
|
|
|-
|
|Not humble enough?
|
|
|}

== Argument descriptions ==
'''Strive for excellence'''

Pro

* It is true that we strive for excellence and want to reach a very high level of quality through continuous iteration --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]
* Striving for excellence means that we push ourselves to deliver the highest quality performance in everything we do. This includes that we must also continuously improve through creativity and innovation. -- Anja --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]
* You can do something for long and still fail at it because you didn't execute it well. --Aron
* "Excellence" itself is a motivation, as you learn you strive to excell in your learning journey --Aron

Contra

* The value might sound intimidating or deterrent to newcomers and discourage them from contributing
* The value might foster perfectionism. Perfectionism is defined as declining contribution due to fear that something might be wrong. This is not wanted we want to encourage contribution, experimentation and personal growth.
* The value might make it harder to admit mistakes or not knowing something as this could be seen as not being "excellent". We want to encourage openness when mistakes happen or when we don't know something or we are not capable of something so that we can improve as we are all learners.
* Not being humble enough makes it again harder to admit mistakes, decrease the speed of the learning curve and the value might be too arrogant. 
'''Growth Mindset'''

Pro

* Clear description of positive attributes associated with personal growth

Contra

* Potentially too focused on personal growth and not improvement of the work itself?
* There might be confusion among people what growth mindset means
* Growth mindset is not bad at all. But to my opinion it is a much weaker expression than "striving for excellence" and too general. -- Anja

'''Continuous Improvement'''

Pro

* The description "Continuous improvement" is very natural when talking about the topic. When saying "We strive for continuous improvement" it is more clear to an outsider what is meant compared to saying "We strive for excellence" or "Growth Mindset". It's also slightly more natural saying "I took this decision because of our continuous improvement value" then saying "i took this decision because of our strive for excellence/growth mindset value"
* The value describes our goal of getting better through iteration well
* The value is true for everyone from beginner to expert
* We could combine the values "Continuous Improvement" and "Strive for Excellence" by including in the description of "Continuous Improvement": Perfection is not human. We are starting simple. By Continuous Refinement and Improvement we are striving for excellence. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]

Contra

* The value is less expressive and might be boring
* The description is not really a personal mindset and might not classify as a value? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]
* Continuous improvement does not mean we will achieve excellence. It could mean we are making improvements but still end up on a low level.

== New Ideas ==
Naming of Value: Excellence through iteration

== Opinion Poll ==
'''Strive for excellence'''

'''Growth Mindset'''

'''Continuous Improvement'''

'''Undecided'''

My current tendency is "Strive for excellence" but not decided yet. Looking for more arguments or counter arguments--[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 11:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

== Final thoughts ==
If applicable add final thoughts here

'''Anja:''' My final thoughts/comments on growth mindset/striving for excellence:

I still vote for striving for excellence (''and I totally agree with Arons comment from 09th of January)''

I cannot see anything arrogant in "striving for excellence". '''Striving for excellence''' means that we '''''push ourselves to deliver the highest quality performance in everything we do. This includes that we must also continuously improve through creativity and innovation.''''' These issues are absolutely essential for a succesful business.

Growth mindset is not bad at all. But to my opinion it is a much weaker expression than "striving for excellence" and too general.

''Additional comment after reading Arons and Magalys thoughts: I understand what Magaly wants to point out, but I think good entrepreneurs know that continous improvement is essential for a successful business and that you can never stop at a point (stop keeping eyes wide open and continue to develop if necessary).''

''I also agree with Aaron that "We strive for excellence" includes "Growth Mindset" and "continous improvement".''

'''Aron:'''

I feel that "We strive for excellence" encompasses "Growth Mindset" and "continous improvement". To achieve excellence, you have to develop a growth mindset and continously improve. Also, Unlike "growth mindset" and "continuous improvement", "we strive to excell" has an end goal "excellence". For that reason, I still vote for "we strive for excellence". I also agree with Anja-I think it's not arragonant to want to excell in a professional setup.

'''Magaly:'''

I vote for the new "continuous improvement", I think it will feel more welcoming for all kind of people that would want to join.

Contrary to what Aron pointed out, I think continuous improvement does also have a goal defined in it, which is never -ending, hence imo better. "Strive for excellence" may sound like you could reach that point/goal and stop there.

Is not that I think "strive for excellence" is bad, or that we should not try to be great and produce high quality in our work. My worry is more in how it is perceived.

'''Moritz:'''

I changed my mind and am now again leaning towards strive for excellence. The main reason is that one could make continuous improvements over time but never become very good as excellence or mastery is not clearly targeted. Therefore choosing a field in which excellence can be achieved and pursing that field seems imperative to me. It is also important to recruit for people and try to win over people who strive for excellence in their respective field.

Our Values:Discussion/First value

2023-01-20T08:01:47Z

Anja: Additional comment to final thougths

''Return to: [[Our Values]]''

This '''detailed discussion''' is referring to [[Our Values]] and follows a first discussion [[Talk:Our Values|here.]] You can find rules on how to participate in discussions in the [[Discussion|Discussions]] main page.

'''Description:'''

There is broad consensus on content of the value itself but diverging opinions on the best naming.

Given the importance of setting the correct values for the company and community i opened this detailed discussion.

Please add to goals we have with the value, pro and contra arguments, describe them and sign which current opinion you have. Opinions can always be changed. Changing an Opinion is neither good or bad, but Opinions should always be well reflected and help us to reach the best possible course of action. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 10:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

== Options ==
Currently discussed Options

* Strive for excellence
* Growth Mindset
* Continuous Improvement

== Goals of the value ==

* Clear communication of our ambition to continuously build on the wiki and turn it into one of the most sophisticated investment knowledge collections
* Clear communication that articles should be continuously improved and we value all - even the smallest contributions - to reach that goal
* Clear communication that we value in depth and detailed work
* Clear communication that we aim to continuously improve on all processes and create very well running systems
* Clear communication that we aim to continuously improve ourselves
* Clear communication that we value people with passion and persistency who aim to achieve mastery in their field
* Attraction of people with similar attributes
* Gaining of trust that the quality of all our work will continuously improve and that all processes will eventually run very well
* Gaining of trust that we are able to reflect on our mistakes and improve and change everything which is not great
* Gaining of trust that we will succeed together and build something great
* Explanation why eventually good articles should be improved to great
* Encouragement to ask questions in order to improve
Add more

== Comparison table ==
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Pro
!Strive for excellence
!Growth Mindset
!Continuous Improvement
|-
|
|Focus on improvement until it is great
|Association with good values
|The description is very natural
|-
|
|
|
|Describes iteration well
|-
|
|
|
|True for all experience levels
|-
|'''Contra'''
|Value might sound intimidating
|Potentially focused too much on personal development?
|Less expressive
|-
|
|Foster perfectionism?
|Term not universally known
|
|-
|
|Harder to admit mistakes?
|
|
|-
|
|Not humble enough?
|
|
|}

== Argument descriptions ==
'''Strive for excellence'''

Pro

* It is true that we strive for excellence and want to reach a very high level of quality through continuous iteration --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]
* Striving for excellence means that we push ourselves to deliver the highest quality performance in everything we do. This includes that we must also continuously improve through creativity and innovation. -- Anja --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]
* You can do something for long and still fail at it because you didn't execute it well. --Aron
* "Excellence" itself is a motivation, as you learn you strive to excell in your learning journey --Aron

Contra

* The value might sound intimidating or deterrent to newcomers and discourage them from contributing
* The value might foster perfectionism. Perfectionism is defined as declining contribution due to fear that something might be wrong. This is not wanted we want to encourage contribution, experimentation and personal growth.
* The value might make it harder to admit mistakes or not knowing something as this could be seen as not being "excellent". We want to encourage openness when mistakes happen or when we don't know something or we are not capable of something so that we can improve as we are all learners.
* Not being humble enough makes it again harder to admit mistakes, decrease the speed of the learning curve and the value might be too arrogant. 
'''Growth Mindset'''

Pro

* Clear description of positive attributes associated with personal growth

Contra

* Potentially too focused on personal growth and not improvement of the work itself?
* There might be confusion among people what growth mindset means
* Growth mindset is not bad at all. But to my opinion it is a much weaker expression than "striving for excellence" and too general. -- Anja

'''Continuous Improvement'''

Pro

* The description "Continuous improvement" is very natural when talking about the topic. When saying "We strive for continuous improvement" it is more clear to an outsider what is meant compared to saying "We strive for excellence" or "Growth Mindset". It's also slightly more natural saying "I took this decision because of our continuous improvement value" then saying "i took this decision because of our strive for excellence/growth mindset value"
* The value describes our goal of getting better through iteration well
* The value is true for everyone from beginner to expert
* We could combine the values "Continuous Improvement" and "Strive for Excellence" by including in the description of "Continuous Improvement": Perfection is not human. We are starting simple. By Continuous Refinement and Improvement we are striving for excellence. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]

Contra

* The value is less expressive and might be boring
* The description is not really a personal mindset and might not classify as a value? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]]
* Continuous improvement does not mean we will achieve excellence. It could mean we are making improvements but still end up on a low level.

== New Ideas ==
Naming of Value: Excellence through iteration

== Opinion Poll ==
'''Strive for excellence'''

'''Growth Mindset'''

'''Continuous Improvement'''

'''Undecided'''

My current tendency is "Strive for excellence" but not decided yet. Looking for more arguments or counter arguments--[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 11:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

== Final thoughts ==
If applicable add final thoughts here

'''Anja:''' My final thoughts/comments on growth mindset/striving for excellence:

I still vote for striving for excellence (''and I totally agree with Arons comment from 09th of January)''

I cannot see anything arrogant in "striving for excellence". '''Striving for excellence''' means that we '''''push ourselves to deliver the highest quality performance in everything we do. This includes that we must also continuously improve through creativity and innovation.''''' These issues are absolutely essential for a succesful business.

Growth mindset is not bad at all. But to my opinion it is a much weaker expression than "striving for excellence" and too general.

''Additional comment after reading Arons and Magalys thoughts: I understand what Magaly wants to point out, but I think good entrepreneurs know that continous improvement is essential for a successful business and that you can never stop at a point (stop keeping eyes wide open and continue to develop if necessary).''

''I also agree with Aaron that "We strive for excellence includes "Growth Mindset" and "continous improvement".''

'''Aron:'''

I feel that "We strive for excellence" encompasses "Growth Mindset" and "continous improvement". To achieve excellence, you have to develop a growth mindset and continously improve. Also, Unlike "growth mindset" and "continuous improvement", "we strive to excell" has an end goal "excellence". For that reason, I still vote for "we strive for excellence". I also agree with Anja-I think it's not arragonant to want to excell in a professional setup.

'''Magaly:'''

I vote for the new "continuous improvement", I think it will feel more welcoming for all kind of people that would want to join.

Contrary to what Aron pointed out, I think continuous improvement does also have a goal defined in it, which is never -ending, hence imo better. "Strive for excellence" may sound like you could reach that point/goal and stop there.

Is not that I think "strive for excellence" is bad, or that we should not try to be great and produce high quality in our work. My worry is more in how it is perceived.

'''Moritz:'''

I changed my mind and am now again leaning towards strive for excellence. The main reason is that one could make continuous improvements over time but never become very good as excellence or mastery is not clearly targeted. Therefore choosing a field in which excellence can be achieved and pursing that field seems imperative to me. It is also important to recruit for people and try to win over people who strive for excellence in their respective field.

Talk:Our Values

2023-01-12T10:27:39Z

Anja:

== Naming of Value: Lifelong learning vs We strive for excellence vs Growth Mindset. ==

I am a bit unsure if we should name the first value Lifelong learning or We strive for excellence.
Pro Lifelong learning:
- More humble

Pro We Strive for excellence
- Focus on continuous improvements

Pro Growthmindset
-

Interestingly enough one of the values of Mediawiki itself is also "We strive for excellence" https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/values/
Opinions? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 10:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Anja|@Anja]] As you just mentioned that value. What is your opinion how we should name it? One of the Options above or differently? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 11:16, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

Lifelong learning is too general to my opinion. In our work areas it is self-evident and unavoidable that we (have to) learn new things continuously. So I definitely vote for "We strive for excellence".

''Growth mindset: “In a growth mindset, people believe that their most basic abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work—brains and talent are just the starting point. This view creates a love of learning and a resilience that is essential for great accomplishment.” ( Dweck, 2015)'' - To my opinion this is very close to "Lifelong learning" and I mostly associate growth mindset with the attitude of successful entrepreneurs (resp. attitude they should have). So again I vote for "We strive for excellence".

I also like "We strive for excellence" because I associate it with a continuous self-reflection (and continous monitoring of the own performance) and self-motivation.

If we do not want to use "We strive for excellence" because it is used often as a value title, I thought of something like:

"We feel the urge to reach our full potential and have the desire to succeed."

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 12:06, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Anja]] Thank you for your Feedback. Yes this association with self-reflection and self-motivation is completely right. The value should also express our desire to reach mastery by relentlessness and continuous improvement. (Having a Wiki which can be continuously improved is well aligned with that)

The only potential downside i could see with "Strive for excellence" is that it may sound too elitist. On the other side it hits what it should stand for right on the nail. Another (more bland) description could be "Continuous Improvement".

What do you vote for [[User:Aron]], [[User:MagaNH6]]? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 07:47, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

[[user:PirateCaptain]] I will vote for "we strive for excellence," My reasons being;

1. You can do something for long and still fail at it because you didn't execute it well.

2. "Excellence" itself is a motivation, as you learn you strive to excell in your learning journey--AK 20:03, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Aron]] ok cool thanks. now only the vote of [[User:MagaNH6]] is missing. (PS: Please sign with your username using the sign function. If you change your signature to something which is not your username i will get no notification.) --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 22:12, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

[[user:PirateCaptain]] I like growth mindset, my reasons:

- Growth mindset in my opinion actually already encapsulates that other 2. With this mindset you are constantly trying to learn, trying to improve in all areas, you are always adapting to constant changes, accepting challenges as they come, and taking lessons from everything either good or bad.

- I think of this value in terms of hard work, self reflection, self criticism and humbleness to admit you will never know everything there is to know, so you need to continue learn, improve and challenge your own views. Hence the growth mindset you need to have in my opinion. Also that even when you commit mistakes or faces challenges or bad feedback or things don't go your way, there is always a lesson to learn from everything that happens good or bad.
"We strive for excellence" makes me think that I can reach a point where I am above all of that, which is not true even for the most successful and intelligent people out there.

- "We strive for excellence" sounds a bit arrogant for me, and I would like it to sound more humble --[[MagaNH6]]

[[User:MagaNH6]] Good description of the value. I think it's good to see that we are all thinking about the same value and the same things are important to us. As always feel free to directly edit the main project page to add your descriptions of the value or sharpen the current description. In terms of next steps i am a bit unsure what to do. We could create a voting page and list advantages and disadvantages of each description, see if we form consensus and possibly have a vote? (Ps: Your signing didn't work yet. Check out the Tip section. I've included a picture of how it works) --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 20:19, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]] I opened a new detailed discussion of the value here. [[Our_values/Discussion/First_value]] The discussion is meant to reach more clarity together how we should name the value, exchange arguments and experiment with using the wiki for discussions.The article will persist even after we reach consensus to document our decision process + arguments, be absolutely transparent & even allow people to resume the discussion at a later stage. I think the discussion also helps with clarity and concrete descriptions of the value, so don't hesitate to ask questions or make suggestions. Please add all your arguments or counterarguments to existing arguments directly to the article. The goal for arguments is always to reach the best setup, never "winning" the argument. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 12:02, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]] Great new discussion article! Excellent idea!

[[User:PirateCaptain]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]] I added my final thoughts about our first value directly in the article under "final thoughts" (I hope this was ok - can adapt it if needed). By the way - I love "loosing" an argument, because usually this means that I learnt something 😉)
--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 10:27, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

==Naming of Value: Ownership vs Leadership==
[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]]
The attributes associated with the ownership value are largely leadership values as well. (Like responsibility, initiative, autonomy)
Therefore i am thinking about renaming the ownership value to leadership.
Taking Leadership for a topic involves the things already described under ownership + encouragement & inclusion of others once more people join the community.
Opinions? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 15:38, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]]
To my opinion "Leadership" does not fit here (as I do not lead anyone in my role here).
(Leadership is the action of leading a group of people or an organization.) I do not associate encouragement & inclusion of others with leadership. For me leadership is something different.
--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 11:47, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

[[user:PirateCaptain]] I concur with Anja. Since we are an open source community, "ownership" seems to have more weight over "leadership". I think "leadership" in the description covers whay you intend to put across.
--AK 20:10, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]] ok thanks. Then let's stick with ownership. On the same topic of ownership: Check out the Linear Issue S-33 on OKRs. I think it would be cool to have company wide OKRs but also personal ones against which we could execute. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 22:12, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

==Important Value missing==
Please add/suggest a value here if you think it is crucial and needs to be added. Keep in mind that values should be very concentrated on the core of what we believe is important. Ideally they should not surpass 4 values in total. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 22:12, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Our Values:Discussion/First value

2023-01-12T10:18:50Z

Anja: /* Final thoughts */

This '''detailed discussion''' is referring to [[Investmentwiki:Our_Values|Our Values]] and follows a first discussion [[Investmentwiki_talk:Our_Values|here.]]

There is broad consensus on the value itself but diverging opinions on the best naming.

Given the importance of setting the correct values for the company and community i opened this detailed discussion.

Please add to goals we have with the value, pro and contra arguments, describe them and sign which current opinion you have. Opinions can always be changed. Changing an Opinion neither good or bad, but Opinions should always be well reflected and help us to reach the best possible course of action. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 10:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

== Goals of the value ==

* Clear communication of our ambition to continuously build on the wiki and turn it into one of the most sophisticated investment knowledge collections
* Clear communication that articles should be continuously improved and we value all - even the smallest contributions - to reach that goal
* Clear communication that we value in depth and detailed work
* Clear communication that we aim to continuously improve on all processes and create very well running systems
* Clear communication that we aim to continuously improve ourselves
* Clear communication that we value people with passion and persistency who aim to achieve mastery in their field
* Attraction of people with similar attributes
* Gaining of trust that the quality of all our work will continuously improve and that all processes will eventually run very well
* Gaining of trust that we are able to reflect on our mistakes and improve and change everything which is not great
* Gaining of trust that we will succeed together and build something great
* Explanation why eventually good articles should be improved to great
* Encouragement to ask questions in order to improve
Add more

== Comparison table ==
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Pro
!Strive for excellence
!Growth Mindset
!Continuous Improvement
|-
|
|Focus on improvement until it is great
|Association with good values
|The description is very natural
|-
|
|
|
|Describes iteration well
|-
|
|
|
|True for all experience levels
|-
|'''Contra'''
|Value might sound intimidating
|Potentially focused too much on personal development?
|Less expressive
|-
|
|Foster perfectionism?
|Term not universally known
|
|-
|
|Harder to admit mistakes?
|
|
|-
|
|Not humble enough?
|
|
|}

== Argument descriptions ==
'''Strive for excellence'''

Pro

* It is true that we strive for excellence and want to reach a very high level of quality through continuous iteration

Contra

* The value might sound intimidating or deterrent to newcomers and discourage them from contributing
* The value might foster perfectionism. Perfectionism is defined as declining contribution due to fear that something might be wrong. This is not wanted we want to encourage contribution, experimentation and personal growth.
* The value might make it harder to admit mistakes or not knowing something as this could be seen as not being "excellent". We want to encourage openness when mistakes happen or when we don't know something or we are not capable of something so that we can improve as we are all learners.
* Not being humble enough makes it again harder to admit mistakes, decrease the speed of the learning curve and is too arrogant. 
'''Growth Mindset'''

Pro

* Clear description of positive attributes associated with personal growth

Contra

* Potentially too focused on personal growth and not improvement of the work itself?
* There might be confusion among people what growth mindset means

'''Continuous Improvement'''

Pro

* The description "Continuous improvement" is very natural when talking about the topic. When saying "We strive for continuous improvement" it is more clear to an outsider what is meant compared to saying "We strive for excellence" or "Growth Mindset". It's also slightly more natural saying "I took this decision because of our continuous improvement value" then saying "i took this decision because of our strive for excellence/growth mindset value"
* The value describes our goal of getting better through iteration well
* The value is true for everyone from beginner to expert

Contra

* The value is less expressive and might be boring

== New Ideas ==
Naming of Value: Excellence through iteration

== Opinion Poll ==
'''Strive for excellence'''

'''Growth Mindset'''

'''Continuous Improvement'''

'''Undecided'''

My current tendency is "Continuous Improvement" but not decided yet. Looking for more arguments or counter arguments--[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 11:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

== Final thoughts ==
If applicable add final thoughts here

'''Anja:''' My final thoughts/comments on growth mindset/striving for excellence:

I still vote for striving for excellence (''and I totally agree with Aarons comment from 09th of January)''

I cannot see anything arrogant in "striving for excellence". '''Striving for excellence''' means that we '''''push ourselves to deliver the highest quality performance in everything we do. This includes that we must also continuously improve through creativity and innovation.''''' These issues are absolutely essential for a succesful business.

Growth mindset is not bad at all. But to my opinion it is a much weaker expression than "striving for excellence" and too general.

Talk:Discussion

2023-01-11T07:22:52Z

Anja: /* Our main place for foundational discussions */

== Our main place for foundational discussions ==
[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]]

Currently discussions take place in 3 different places: Discord, Linear and the Investmentwiki.

I'd like to streamline discussion about things like our values, rules, way of working together in one place.
My current take is that the Investmentwiki is probably the best place as it is persistent & transparent & can help us best with onboarding new people.
Overall Discussions on Discord should be more casual and chill and on Linear more focused around a specific task.

Disadvantages per Plattform:
*Discord: Discussion is not persistent as the will fall back in time in a channel.
*Investmentwiki: Format is very unusual and requires some learning curve.
*Linear: Discussion is not open as people need to be part of linear first.

Opinions? --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 22:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:Anja]][[User:Aron]][[User:MagaNH6]] Short Thread Bump --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 18:03, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

[[user:PirateCaptain]] I agree with your opinion, but notifications feature may inhibit urgent discussions in investmentwiki unlike in Discord where notifications are instant. Email notifications do delay( I don't know if anyone else has noticed the same)--AK 18:50, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

[[user:PirateCaptain]] I like wiki for discussions about the company (values, objetives,tasks, etc), and discussion about the analysis in the articles already made or that are missing, as it more open, and everyone will be able to access at any point in time.
For everyday news about macro or the investments, I like discord as it is offer more fluidity I think.--[[User:MagaNH6|MagaNH6]] ([[User talk:MagaNH6|talk]]) 00:53, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

[[user:PirateCaptain]]
I agree. Discussions about the company values, objectives, etc. on Investmentwiki. (I think it is no problem when the email notifications delay, because discussions about values etc. normally are not that urgent.)

Linear: Specific Tasks (if urgent an additional message on discord)

Discord: Overall discussions and contact channel for urgent things and socializing

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 07:22, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Our Values

2023-01-09T11:48:13Z

Anja:

Talk:Our Values

2023-01-06T12:06:19Z

Anja:

Value Proposition

2023-01-05T10:21:27Z

Anja:

First draft of our Value Proposition. Copied from Linear.

"The central place for investment research/information"

Reasons to use the wiki

* Discover. Discover great investment opportunities.
* Find. Find the best sources and experts necessary to understand a topic (e.g. company or macro)
* Learn. Learn about companies (All infos in one place - unique value proposition, does not exist yet. Good for researchers to look quotations up)
* Follow. Company and economic news in one place.
* Discuss. Discuss companies and macro developments with us and the community (instead of just reading about it in e.g. an article)
* Contribute. Contribute to the world largest "investment knowledge database".
* Gain credibility. Build your own personal brand as a great analyst and expert for a certain topic (this is great for your career and there can be eventually competitions, awards, prices etc.)

Later on:

* Improve. Improve your investment skills (with our learning materials).

Talk:Value Proposition

2023-01-05T10:18:43Z

Anja:

== Improvment Suggestions to spelling and grammar ==

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

"The central place for investment research/information'''s'''" ''"s" is wrong here''

Learn. Learn '''A''' must be ''"a" (lower case)'' bout companies (All '''I''' ''must be "i" lower case'' nfos in one place - '''U''' !! nique value proposition, does not exist'''s''' ''must be exist without s'' yet. Good for '''R''' ''must be "r" lower case'' esearchers to look quotations up)
Follow. Company and '''E''' !! conomic news in one place.
Discuss. Discuss '''C''' !! ompanies and '''Macrodevelopments''' ''should be "macro developments"'' with us and the community. (Instead of just reading about it in e.g. an article)
Contribute. Contribute to '''the''' ''(I would add "the" here)'' world largest "investment knowledge database".
Gain credibility. Build your own personal brand as a great analyst and expert for a certain topic ('''T'''!! his is great for your career and '''T''' !! here can be eventually competitions, awards, prices etc.)
Later on:

Improve. Improve your investment skills (with our learning materials)'''.''' ''(full stop at the end)''

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 09:05, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
#Hey [[User:Anja|Anja]] I've wrote this draft in about 5 mins and copy pasted it here without checking for grammar. That said grammar and spelling are also not particular strengths of mine and there will eventually be always mistakes. Feel free to edit the article directly. By checking for differences between your and my version i can easily see all changes made and hopefully also improve my writing. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 10:11, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

Thanks for the info. It was not meant to be criticism. Only assistance and striving for improvement/perfection 🙂.

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 10:18, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Vision

2023-01-05T10:14:06Z

Anja:

== Suggestion for article improvement ==

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

Our Vision is to become the central place in which '''all''' ''is "all" really the correct word here?'' financial informations are brought together by a passionate community. It should be the first place in which you start your research when trying to understand a company or macrotopic and the place in which you find the most likeminded people and high quality discussions around '''that''' ''better: the?'' same topic.

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 08:57, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

# Hey [[User:Anja|Anja]] i've got an email notification. Good to see that the system is working. Writing is not my greatest strength. The great thing about using a wiki is that it has not to be, as everyone can make improvements to articles. If a change or improvement is not liked it is easy to roll the change back to a previous version. Feel free to make changes to articles, once you spot mistakes. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 09:48, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

#PS: [[User:Anja|Anja]] I changed the article now and hope it is more clear. Feedback like the one above when things are not clear and there is no easy fix as there is uncertainty what the original author wanted to say is good in order to improve. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 09:55, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

I have now corrected a few spelling mistakes directly in the text (on the project page). I hope that was ok.

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 10:12, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Vision

2023-01-05T10:12:47Z

Anja:

== Suggestion for article improvement ==

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

Our Vision is to become the central place in which '''all''' ''is "all" really the correct word here?'' financial informations are brought together by a passionate community. It should be the first place in which you start your research when trying to understand a company or macrotopic and the place in which you find the most likeminded people and high quality discussions around '''that''' ''better: the?'' same topic.

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 08:57, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

# Hey [[User:Anja|Anja]] i've got an email notification. Good to see that the system is working. Writing is not my greatest strength. The great thing about using a wiki is that it has not to be, as everyone can make improvements to articles. If a change or improvement is not liked it is easy to roll the change back to a previous version. Feel free to make changes to articles, once you spot mistakes. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 09:48, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

#PS: [[User:Anja|Anja]] I changed the article now and hope it is more clear. Feedback like the one above when things are not clear and there is no easy fix as there is uncertainty what the original author wanted to say is good in order to improve. --[[User:PirateCaptain|PirateCaptain]] ([[User talk:PirateCaptain|talk]]) 09:55, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

Ich habe jetzt direkt im Text (in der Projektseite) ein paar Rechtschreibfehler korrigiert. Ich hoffe, das war ok so.

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 10:12, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Vision

2023-01-05T10:10:12Z

Anja:

Our vision is to become the central place in which the largest collection of financial information are brought together by a passionate community. It should be the first place in which you start your research when trying to understand a company or macrotopic and the place in which you find the most likeminded people and high quality discussions around investment topics.

We believe that open knowledge and discussions will lead to a better understanding of complex topics and aim to reduce this complexity by breaking it down into simply effect-cause relationsships and "first principles". See [[Valuation_Models|Models]].

This better understanding will help us to make better investment decisions. Therefore we can succeed as a community of investors but also contribute our part to a larger knowledge system.

The sum of human investment knowledge and improving models will hopefully help more people to make better investment decisions, which in turn allows money to flow into more innovative and productive places which accelerates innovation, prosperity and positive change.

Talk:Value Proposition

2023-01-05T09:16:43Z

Anja:

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

"The central place for investment research/information'''s'''" ''"s" is wrong here''

Learn. Learn '''A''' must be ''"a" (lower case)'' bout companies (All '''I''' ''must be "i" lower case'' nfos in one place - '''U''' !! nique value proposition, does not exist'''s''' ''must be exist without s'' yet. Good for '''R''' ''must be "r" lower case'' esearchers to look quotations up)
Follow. Company and '''E''' !! conomic news in one place.
Discuss. Discuss '''C''' !! ompanies and '''Macrodevelopments''' ''should be "macro developments"'' with us and the community. (Instead of just reading about it in e.g. an article)
Contribute. Contribute to '''the''' ''(I would add "the" here)'' world largest "investment knowledge database".
Gain credibility. Build your own personal brand as a great analyst and expert for a certain topic ('''T'''!! his is great for your career and '''T''' !! here can be eventually competitions, awards, prices etc.)
Later on:

Improve. Improve your investment skills (with our learning materials)'''.''' ''(full stop at the end)''

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 09:05, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Value Proposition

2023-01-05T09:06:10Z

Anja: Created page with "User:PirateCaptain "The central place for investment research/information'''s'''" ''"s" is wrong here'' --~~~~"

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

"The central place for investment research/information'''s'''" ''"s" is wrong here''

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 09:05, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Vision

2023-01-05T08:58:24Z

Anja: Created page with "User:PirateCaptain Our Vision is to become the central place in which '''all''' ''is "all" really the correct word here?'' financial informations are brought together by..."

[[User:PirateCaptain]]

Our Vision is to become the central place in which '''all''' ''is "all" really the correct word here?'' financial informations are brought together by a passionate community. It should be the first place in which you start your research when trying to understand a company or macrotopic and the place in which you find the most likeminded people and high quality discussions around '''that''' ''better: the?'' same topic.

--[[User:Anja|Anja]] ([[User talk:Anja|talk]]) 08:57, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

User talk:Anja

2023-01-05T08:01:46Z

Anja: Blanked the page

User talk:Anja

2023-01-05T07:59:20Z

Anja: Created page with "Our Vision is to become the central place in which all financial informations are brought together by a passionate community. It should be the first place in which you start y..."

Our Vision is to become the central place in which all financial informations are brought together by a passionate community. It should be the first place in which you start your research when trying to understand a company or macrotopic and the place in which you find the most likeminded people and high quality discussions around that same topic.

We believe that open knowledge and discussions will lead to a better understanding of complex topics and aim to reduce this complexity by breaking it down into simply effect-cause relationsships and "first principles". See [[Valuation_Models|Models]].

This better understanding will help us to make better investment decisions. Therefore we can succeed as a community of investors but also contribute our part to a larger knowledge system.

The sum of human investmentknowledge and improving models will hopefully help more people to make better investment decisions, which in turn allows money to flow into more innovative and productive places which accelerates innovation, prosperity and positive change.