Talk:Our Values

Naming of Value: Lifelong learning vs We strive for excellence vs Growth Mindset.

I am a bit unsure if we should name the first value Lifelong learning or We strive for excellence. Pro Lifelong learning: - More humble

Pro We Strive for excellence - Focus on continuous improvements

Pro Growthmindset -

Interestingly enough one of the values of Mediawiki itself is also "We strive for excellence" https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/values/ Opinions? --PirateCaptain (talk) 10:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

@Anja As you just mentioned that value. What is your opinion how we should name it? One of the Options above or differently? --PirateCaptain (talk) 11:16, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Lifelong learning is too general to my opinion. In our work areas it is self-evident and unavoidable that we (have to) learn new things continuously. So I definitely vote for "We strive for excellence".

Growth mindset: “In a growth mindset, people believe that their most basic abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work—brains and talent are just the starting point. This view creates a love of learning and a resilience that is essential for great accomplishment.” ( Dweck, 2015) - To my opinion this is very close to "Lifelong learning" and I mostly associate growth mindset with the attitude of successful entrepreneurs (resp. attitude they should have). So again I vote for "We strive for excellence".

I also like "We strive for excellence" because I associate it with a continuous self-reflection (and continous monitoring of the own performance) and self-motivation.

If we do not want to use "We strive for excellence" because it is used often as a value title, I thought of something like:

"We feel the urge to reach our full potential and have the desire to succeed."

--Anja (talk) 12:06, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

User:Anja Thank you for your Feedback. Yes this association with self-reflection and self-motivation is completely right. The value should also express our desire to reach mastery by relentlessness and continuous improvement. (Having a Wiki which can be continuously improved is well aligned with that)

The only potential downside i could see with "Strive for excellence" is that it may sound too elitist. On the other side it hits what it should stand for right on the nail. Another (more bland) description could be "Continuous Improvement".

What do you vote for User:Aron, User:MagaNH6? --PirateCaptain (talk) 07:47, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

user:PirateCaptain I will vote for "we strive for excellence," My reasons being;

1. You can do something for long and still fail at it because you didn't execute it well.

2. "Excellence" itself is a motivation, as you learn you strive to excell in your learning journey--AK 20:03, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

User:Aron ok cool thanks. now only the vote of User:MagaNH6 is missing. (PS: Please sign with your username using the sign function. If you change your signature to something which is not your username i will get no notification.) --PirateCaptain (talk) 22:12, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

user:PirateCaptain I like growth mindset, my reasons:

- Growth mindset in my opinion actually already encapsulates that other 2. With this mindset you are constantly trying to learn, trying to improve in all areas, you are always adapting to constant changes, accepting challenges as they come, and taking lessons from everything either good or bad.

- I think of this value in terms of hard work, self reflection, self criticism and humbleness to admit you will never know everything there is to know, so you need to continue learn, improve and challenge your own views. Hence the growth mindset you need to have in my opinion. Also that even when you commit mistakes or faces challenges or bad feedback or things don't go your way, there is always a lesson to learn from everything that happens good or bad. "We strive for excellence" makes me think that I can reach a point where I am above all of that, which is not true even for the most successful and intelligent people out there.

- "We strive for excellence" sounds a bit arrogant for me, and I would like it to sound more humble --MagaNH6

User:MagaNH6 Good description of the value. I think it's good to see that we are all thinking about the same value and the same things are important to us. As always feel free to directly edit the main project page to add your descriptions of the value or sharpen the current description. In terms of next steps i am a bit unsure what to do. We could create a voting page and list advantages and disadvantages of each description, see if we form consensus and possibly have a vote? (Ps: Your signing didn't work yet. Check out the Tip section. I've included a picture of how it works) --PirateCaptain (talk) 20:19, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

User:AnjaUser:AronUser:MagaNH6 I opened a new detailed discussion of the value here. Our Values:Discussion/First value The discussion is meant to reach more clarity together how we should name the value, exchange arguments and experiment with using the wiki for discussions.The article will persist even after we reach consensus to document our decision process + arguments, be absolutely transparent & even allow people to resume the discussion at a later stage. I think the discussion also helps with clarity and concrete descriptions of the value, so don't hesitate to ask questions or make suggestions. Please add all your arguments or counterarguments to existing arguments directly to the article. The goal for arguments is always to reach the best setup, never "winning" the argument. --PirateCaptain (talk) 12:02, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

User:PirateCaptain Great new discussion article! Excellent idea!

User:PirateCaptainUser:AronUser:MagaNH6 I added my final thoughts about our first value directly in the article under "final thoughts" (I hope this was ok - can adapt it if needed). By the way - I love "loosing" an argument, because usually this means that I learnt something 😉) --Anja (talk) 10:27, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

User:Anja Thanks for adding your thoughts. I absolutely love loosing an argument as well for the same reason and added that point to the description of our main Discussion article here: Investmentwiki:Discussions What do you think about naming the value continuous Improvement? Do you have Arguments for or against it? While we are experimenting with detailed discussion i added started a discussion about best practices here: Investmentwiki_talk:Discussions. In terms of timeline i am thinking about leaving the discussion open for the next couple of weeks. Final thoughts and arguments from User:MagaNH6User:Aron are still missing and potentially someone else might also want to join the discussion. --PirateCaptain (talk) 08:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

user:PirateCaptain added my final thoughts here: Our_values/Discussion/First_value --Aron (talk) 14:35, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

user:PirateCaptain I have left my comments too --MagaNH6 (talk) 19:15, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Naming of Value: Ownership vs Leadership

User:AnjaUser:AronUser:MagaNH6 The attributes associated with the ownership value are largely leadership values as well. (Like responsibility, initiative, autonomy) Therefore i am thinking about renaming the ownership value to leadership. Taking Leadership for a topic involves the things already described under ownership + encouragement & inclusion of others once more people join the community. Opinions? --PirateCaptain (talk) 15:38, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

User:PirateCaptain To my opinion "Leadership" does not fit here (as I do not lead anyone in my role here). (Leadership is the action of leading a group of people or an organization.) I do not associate encouragement & inclusion of others with leadership. For me leadership is something different. --Anja (talk) 11:47, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

user:PirateCaptain I concur with Anja. Since we are an open source community, "ownership" seems to have more weight over "leadership". I think "leadership" in the description covers whay you intend to put across. --AK 20:10, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

User:AnjaUser:Aron ok thanks. Then let's stick with ownership. On the same topic of ownership: Check out the Linear Issue S-33 on OKRs. I think it would be cool to have company wide OKRs but also personal ones against which we could execute. --PirateCaptain (talk) 22:12, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Important Value missing?

Please add/suggest a value here if you think it is crucial and needs to be added. Keep in mind that values should be very concentrated on the core of what we believe is important. Ideally they should not surpass 4 values in total. --PirateCaptain (talk) 22:12, 9 January 2023 (UTC)